Sienkiewicz - Weeks 7 & 8 Notes

Note Index | Stephanie Sienkiewicz

Stephanie Sienkiewicz Weeks 7 & 8 Field Notes excerpts - Politics, Fijians and Indians

Researched 10/22/99, Typed 10/23/99
Summary

Yesterday I interviewed [name deleted]. His mataqali leases land to Indians and will not renew the lease next year.
Interview with [name deleted]

"We want our land back because it was leased out to Indians 70 or 90 years ago. I wasn't born by that time, I'm only 56 now. That land was leased out by my great grandfather to Indian people. Some of us don't have any land at all. We just have a small piece to plant our kasava, dalo and yams. That's for daily living. And a source of income, to plant sugar cane and other crops to sell in the market, we haven't got any left-over land. Because all of our land is leased out to Indians for a very long time. By this time, their lease, some of them, expires next year. Well, they expire this year. We gave them a one-year grace period for them and the government to find out where to resettle them. Some of us want to give their land back, to lease it out, to the Indians, those who've got more land. But some of us who have big numbers in our mataqali, we want out land back, to use it. Even myself, I am supposed to be in Navolau now. My great grandfather went over to Navolau and have a land there. By the time we stayed there, we haven't got any more land there. By that time, colonial time, my father came back to Rakiraki. But this is not our land. This was his mother's land; we lease out this land. But we haven't got any land here. Our ancestors left Rakiraki and went to Navolau...We haven't got any more land right now in Navolau except when that land [that is leased] will come back to us, then we can divide among all our mataqali, to have their source of income."

"On the land in Navolau, the Indians pay rent every six months. Out of their land on that ten acres they can cut 300 tons and get $10,000 to $12,000. They make a lot of money (laughing) and we have got enough, but we have lots of mataqali." There are about 600 mataqali to split the money amongst. "Our father is the head of out mataqali."

"By 2000 [the Indians] will be out [of the mataqali's land in Navolau.] He explained telling the Indians that their lease would not be renewed. "One of them when we gave notice last October [fainted]."..."That's why we are separated. We haven't got any land. We have no source of income." He was saying that the reason that Fijian families have to split up is because there aren't enough sources of income in the villages. People have to move away to get jobs because there is no land in the village for them to farm upon and make money. I asked him if he thought that his mataqali really would work on the land if they take it back. He explained how people could buy tractors and goods to work. "Three of them can share to buy a tractor to work out the land...You can't buy a truck if you lease out the land. They'll give them an application form, They apply for their lease and we'll agree that lease. It goes to the Native Land Trust Board. We can mortgage it through the bank so that we can buy what we want to use for the land, tractor [etc.]...We'll have to share. In our mataqali, we've got four brothers. We'll give to every house contract numbers so we can work together, work out that land. So they can get their source of income out of that land."

I asked him what he thought the Indians would do now that they don't have their land. "On that day we gave their notice. Two of them got shook. We had to give them water. They have no where to go. Very sorry, we want our land. Because even they make nice big buildings, garage, car. If they want to take those things with them, they can take. If they want to demolish the house, they can. But we just want our land back. If we give it back to them now, it will take another 90 years."

He told me that people have to go to the towns to get jobs because there isn't land to work here. "My sons, they are working. We went to a funeral while you were gone [to Taveuni]. My sister's brother in L.A. died. I told my sons, each of you get $200. I collected $1000 to give to the burial ceremony. That's good. If they are educated, that is enough. They can buy their own houses, where they are staying. They can eat there. If they want to come home when they retire, they can come. Two of them already bought their own houses...There are no other factories around our area except the sugar mill. They can find job in the towns."

I asked him that when they get their land back from the Indians, if family members are gone to the towns, who will stay back to farm the land. "We haven't got enough land from [Navolau] to share. Us is enough. We haven't got enough land [because the mataqali is so large.] We begged the government. We still have more land on the government side. A European came and bought it for two shillings from our great grandfathers. It belongs to the government now. We are reapplying again. We have lots of mataqali and not enough land. Wananavu beach, that's all our land. We reapplied to the government. It's up to them...they'll have to [give the land back to us.] It was crown land before but now they reserve it to the native land. We applied for that land. We have more mataqali and no land. We still need land. That's the main problem.

The Indians pay two times per year on the lease. "The native land came and revised the lease every ten years. If you lease 14 acres, out of that land, the land for housing, the housing lease can triple on that 14 acres of cane farm land. The cane farm's lease is very low. They pay more; the housing loan is higher than the farm lease." I asked him if the Indians always pay the amount that they are supposed to pay. "It depends on what you going to pay. The native land can't force them. If you pay $250 or $50, it depends on you, on your payment. This was before. But now if you don't pay on the right time, you have to make a late payment and pay more."" They started doing this last year. "Before, never mind, if you won't pay the native land can't do anything. They just give notice, give notice. You couldn't get all that money on the due date. We still have more money from them to pay up to us. But by now, they can force them." I asked him if it was a problem that the Indians wouldn't pay on time. "Yeah, some of us used to go and make a fence around their compound. We would surround their compound, if you don't pay your lease. They block your road, fence out all your house, if you never pay this amount of rent. Because invoices come every six months. You know from that invoice that you didn't pay up. If you never paid you won't come out, you won't go anywhere. From Nadi, Ba, Lautoka, some in Suva, they are doing it. Because some of [the Indians] they are very smart. If they have to pay $400 then you pay only $150. Now if you pay late on the due date, you have a punishment. You'll have to pay another 10% on top of that amount that you pay...Now they are afraid of that. As soon as they pay late, they have more to pay."

I brought up to him that I had talked to some Fijians that said that they could not make the Indians pay, they could not ask for money because they are Fijian. He agreed that they don't ask for money. "One part of our land was taken by CSR (the former name of FSC), and they take up all of that land and make a water catchum (spelling?). They drink water from that. And I wrote a letter to the manager and the Native Land. I know the general manager very well. And I gave them a notice. 'You have been using this land over 200 years and you never paid anything. And you let the water out to the Indians. They might pay to you, but you haven't given any money for the water.' And I went to all the Indian houses, those who drink from there. It was about 23 houses. They said 'Oh I don't know you, you're from Rakiraki. All right, next time you'll come around. Next time you're gonna search for me.' I came blocked the tank. I called one of my brothers and we pulled out all of the pipes, all the Indian and even the FSC. They came to the police, to the district administration. They rang the general manager. One early morning on Monday they came over here, their solicitor, their lawyer. These people came. This was three years back. It was over 200, 300 years they never paid that for water to us." "They pay now. I explained to them, 'You search for me in three weeks time. They didn't know what I was thinking about. I came and blocked the land and damaged all the tanks. Find their own water. Because they never paid anything. Even FSC. The FSC let the Indian come and drink off that. By the time I damage it. They all buried their wells. They came and searched for me. They went to Navolau, no they didn't know anything. They said to come to me...Ten, twenty cars of policemen came and woke me up. I said, 'What do you want.' [They said] 'We just came to investigate who damaged those tanks.' I said, 'myself.' [They said] 'It's your land?' I said 'It's my land. That's my reserve land. It belongs to me and my father, and all my ancestors. You people don't pay any rent. I don't want to see your face here. The police, the DO or the FSC. If you want to come in here ask the turaga ni koro. Did you ask the turaga ni koro?, No. Come on, out of my compound, right out to the main road.' And the DO (the general manager) came back. He said, 'Hey, why are you doing this?' I said, 'It's a long time, they never paid anything. I gave them warning and they said, 'We don't know you, you are from Rakiraki.' They don't know that is my land." They were crying. They came every afternoon. Come and sevusevu, kerekere to fit back their pipes. 'No! You keep searching for me. The first time I came over to you, asking you to give this certain amount, only ten dollars, you won't. But now you give me $10,000 right now and I'll fit back your pipe. Right now, if no, go back.' It took three and one-half years. They buried their own well for the water and keep digging it again. Three and one-half years. They came begging nearly everyday. I never gave it back...I give them now. Just last year. They paid $1,200...for all of them, those who are using that pipeline. I say, 'I'll never come and collect you. You just know the time and the lease payment, you give the money...That's some sort of power we can make on our native land. It's our native reserve."

I asked him if he thought that most mataqalis would renew the leases. "Some will renew. I read in Ba Province, Sigatoka. Some of them will give land back to resettle them again. And even some are friendly just like we are staying together in a village. They have better relations. If there is any problem at home, anyone passed away, a wedding or something, they can come and join the family gathering. Us, they never do that." I asked why this is. "They keep separate from us. Their land, they use or they lease. [They think that the land belongs to them.] We mostly, us Fijians, if you help me, if you come to me, or you just always visit me when you are staying on my land, we are close relations. But those Indians from our side, we can't stay close to them. They never come to visit us. But now they keep on running back. They know, on the day we gave the notice in September, two of them fainted when we said 'This is your last year.' Uproot all your crops. If you want to take your buildings, take them wherever the government is going to resettle you. But the only thing we want is our land back. And two of them fainted (laughing). We had to dump a bucket of water on them. Two of them! Because some of them, we can't stay together. They can't come close to us." I asked why this is. "Because they have their own way of living. Even they all don't know me. I always say 'Bula' to them or 'Namaste', but they don't know me. I am one of, I am the head of the mataqali. The elder must be the head of the mataqali. But I am staying here [not in Navolau]. I asked if the villagers in Navolau have good relations with the Indians there. "Some of them used to go, only two or three, and borrow them something if they need it. I just heard it. Some of them, but us no. They just know that we are from Rakiraki." I asked if he knew them. "I know them very well. But they don't know I am the head of the mataqali where they are staying."

I asked if relations would be different if they lived near Rakiraki (or he near them). "I would talk to them in a friendly way. But I don't think they would live anywhere near here. I heard in Ba, they will resettle them again. In Nadroga they will resettle them. The chief of Nadroga gave them 4,000 acres. Because they have enough land. We haven't got enough land. Because most of our land was taken by them. Even my house is have chain to the crown land. At the back of the house is the crown land. It is owned by the government. But that's our mataqali land, we know that's our land." This is the land that they are asking the government to have back. "Because this land, only one of my sons can have. But the rest are on their own. That's why I told them to get a good education."

I asked him about the last election. I said that I heard that the main issue of the election was the land leases. I asked if he thought that the government would resettle the Indians and give them money, as promised, if the leases were not renewed. "It depends on the government, if the government can find money. They promised $28,000 to resettle them. But it's a lot of money and there are a lot of families to get that money. I think, from Chaudhry's promise, I don't know whether it will work or not. One side, Chaudhry wants to help only the Indians. And how us poor Fijians. Some of us haven't got any money at all. And right now, we fight for that. If they resettle Indians, they must also resettle Fijians who have taken their land back." He said that Chaudhry promised this. "I don't know whether it will work or not."

I asked how he felt about having an Indian prime minister. "Like what happened in India, very soon there'll be a coup again. What happened to Ghandi and all of the British living in India, their houses, all their belongings, they gave them 24 hours to pack up and go. You know [some name = Butandroga?], 'One Fijian always fights for the right of a Fijian.' He was in parliament, now he's not in parliament. It's Chaudhry now. There are some of the Fijian political parties [that will take over by means of a coup.] I asked how an Indian got to become the prime minister. "They keep on changing the constitution. This constitution was made by one part-European, a Maori from New Zealand, one Indian, they are both lawyers, and one ex-member of parliament, a Fijian. But some said it's good to ask all. But now, even those chief or those making the constitution going now, they have seen what happened now. There is one Indian at the top of the government. But we Fijians, we just want our government to be headed by a Fijian. Because we have our own beliefs, Indians haven't got any beliefs...They have their own beliefs but they are different from us."

"Even some [Indians] are born close to us, to the village. But they can't take our dialect...because they don't want to come and mix with us. I can talk in Indian. But they don't want to." I asked why he thought they don't want to. "It's part of their culture. And some them are married now to Fijian women. But it is very hard, you can see, for an Indian woman to be married to a Fijian man." I asked if the Indians wanted to come to the village to drink grog or attend ceremonies they would be accepted. "They are always welcome. On Tuesday, when we came back, two of my friends, they used to repair my car, I used to use their tractors, we are friendly, they came over to drink grog. We can have our dinner together. When I was drinking beer, I used to drink beer with them. It depends on their heart." I wondered if he thought that most Indians were friendly or unfriendly. "Most of them are friendly if you are friendly to them. If you know them closely. If you are separated from them, see us from Navolau, they won't come to us. They don't want to. But now, when they see they haven't got any power at all, they want to come. When they want to come, no, we stop. 'Not any one of you to get close to them (speaking as if talking to other Fijians)'. They can give $6000 ,7000, 20,000. I told them, not one of you take money, you can end up in jail. Some of them do this. Some come and offer $20,000. Because they've got money."

I asked if a Fijians would ever do this, offer money. "No, we haven't got any money. We Fijians, we hardly keep any money because we always share everything. I explained to Michelle, 'Sure we want to be rich, but we can't do it.' I never ask for money back from people who borrow it. I just ask money from my sons [for funerals, etc.]. We can't get rich. The only money we get we just want to get our house, living in a good house. Some of us can't even build our house because we haven't got a source of income." I asked why Fijians share so much. "It's our way of living. Some of us with a better education, they want to come and change the rules. But they won't live long. They get their doctor degree from England or from America and they want to change our way of living, to stop sharing. But we can't. The only thing will happen to them, they won't live long. One, or two, or three years, they will pass, something must happen to them." I asked why. "I don't know. Only the Lord knows that. Those who were educated well and came back from where they were educated. And they want to change the way of living. They want to help us to make a business. We want to make it but the problem is the way we were brought up when we were young. If there is a wedding, I can just give [money.] Never mind if you haven't got anything. The only thing, you have to plant your own kasava, to get enough for your family. You must plant crops and food for your own family. Yeah we all want to [get rich], but we can't do it. I sometimes, I can get $10,000 or $20,000 per year. But if anything happens to our family, I will have to pay that. I can support that. I can buy 3,4,5, 6 cows if someone dies. I don't care about money, I just care about my family."

I asked if he thinks that the Fijians will not get rich while the Indians get rich. "Some of us are getting rich. Because they are educated. Some have degrees in business. Some of us Fijians are well off now." I asked if these people were still sharing as much money with relations. "Yeah, yeah."

I asked if the Indians share like the Fijians. "No! Indians, I always make friends with Indians. When you get married you will be separated by that time. When married, you have to separate from your house. One will go do well with his business and will never come back to visit." He explained that his sons come back to visit the family, but Indians do not come back at all. "Only the last time they came, most of them, is when they bury their parents. They just never come back." I asked why this is. "That's their own way of living, see?...If there is a quarrel between brothers, they won't talk to each other until they die. Even they can kill each other. They quarrel about land, who is responsible for that land. They can kill each other over that." I asked why he thought they could do that. I asked if Fijians could do that, "No!" I asked why Indians but not Fijians could do that; what part of the Indian way of life makes them care less about their family. "They get that relationship from their homeland when they came to Fiji...We can stay close together. Even some of them can come. But all, no. They always want to separate from us."

I asked him if he thought that the Indians were happy to have an Indian prime minister. "I don't think. The Indians too think something will happen. When they announced that Chaudhry was prime minister, they all said there will be a coup. If Chaudhry goes with his promises, there won't be a coup. If he tries to grab our land, there will be a coup...Fijians want to be inside their land. They keep on changing the constitution. They all read the constitution, they signed it. The [present constitution] is why there is an Indian prime minister. But the Fijians want a Fijian prime minister. Even from India now...they don't want anyone from somewhere else (Sonia Ghandi) to be prime minister, European or part-European. And we Fijians, we give them the right, even from England." I asked him if he thought that the constitution should say that only a Fijian can be prime minister. "That's how our old constitution was." I asked if that's how it should be again, "I think."

I asked if he thought that the Indians control the government now. "The think done by Chaudhry is that there are 13 Fijian seats; there are only 4 or 5 Indians seats. That's only to keep us cool (laughing.) The main thing we don't want them to come and rule over our land. But now Chaudhry is lighting a fire now because he wants to take up Crown land. We don't want Chaudhry to change anything. If he touches that thing, [that's when there will be a coup.]

I asked him to explain the differences between Crown schedule A land, and Crown schedule B land. Schedule A land was taken from the mataqalis without proper mention of how it was taken; this was during colonial times. A record wasn't kept; Joeli told me that Europeans would buy the land with bottles or suitcases. Schedule B is land that should be given back to the mataqalis, according to him. This has been recorded. "They know this is our land." "[They should get it back] Because some of the mataqali, they haven't got any land. Their land is taken by Indians. The land taken by the Native land commission was taken by the government. [They let the Indians lease this land.] But this belongs to us. But we know that is our land."

I asked him if he though that the Indians should be able to lease land at all. "They should. We gave them the right to lease. If you have enough, we should give them land so they can make a living. [Fijians first, then Indians if there is enough.] Right now, the Indians have more of the better land...When the lease runs out, we'll see. I've seen when the lease runs out, they leave their cane and [stop harvesting]. Because is we lease the land back to them, it will take another 90 years." I asked if he would lease out his land if the period was only ten years (for example). "Chaudhry wants to change that. They're be a problem [if he does.] The Fijians don't want to [make the shorter leases.] In our koro meeting we decided that. We just want the land back.

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Researched Saturday 10/23/99, Typed 10/26/99
Summary

Saturday I went to the small river that runs alongside the village to watch the kids from the village swim and play water rugby. I performed one life history interview.

... [personal interviews deleted]

Researched Sunday 10/24/99, Typed 10/27/99
Summary

On Sunday I attended an AOG church service in the morning. I performed one life history interview with Leba Caucau Nauvi. She is my Nana Levu.

... [personal interviews deleted]

The AOG church service

I went to the service with one of the families that lives in my village. This church is called Kenanivou.

We arrived during Sunday school. The Talatala was reading passages from the Bible. Other adults in the audience also read passages from Exodus. There was a board with diagrams drawn on it to explain the Bible stories. The kids sat at the front of the church. The church had mats covering the floor which people sat on (they took their shoes off when they entered). There was a pulpit spanning the front of the room. There was masi on the walls of the church and on the pillars inside. Men sat on one side of the room, while women sat on the other. The women spread out at the back of the church.

After the Sunday school session finished, a young man played the guitar while a boy played the tambourine. The church usually uses a keyboard as well but the power was out that day. The congregation was singing and clapping. Some people cried out 'Amen' or 'Hallelujah.'

One man began speaking at the pulpit. After his speech, the Talatala (who taught Sunday school) went to the pulpit. While the Talatala was preaching, the audience cried out their own prayers at the same time that he was speaking. The woman behind me cried loudly as if she was sobbing. The Talatala also greeted visitors to the church. These included people from Vitawa and Vunitogoloa. These were people who do not usually attend this church. He greeted 'Solei's friend.' The girl I went with is Solei. A third man went to the pulpit after the Talatala. All three of these men sat behind the pulpit during the whole service.

The third man read and preached from a Bible passage. He waived his hands in the air. He was energetic and losing his breath while preaching. He was saying (Solei explained) to be on time for church, not sometimes, but all of the time. 'Don't follow your own time, follow God's time.' He also said, 'Are you so busy all of the time that you can't read one verse [from the Bible]? Read one verse before going outside everyday.' He also said that people should just pray if they are having problems. 'Man's greatest power is the power of prayer. Whenever you have problems, you should pray. People today run to the priest when they have problems. They don't know that God is there with them. On top of the mountain God will talk to you. (He said that in English.) Jesus said, 'My house is inside people's hearts.''

At this point in the service, the kids cleared out of the front of the sitting area and people went up to sit there. These were people who had guilt that they wanted to get rid of. Solei told me that they feel the hold ghost will speak inside of them. There were about 12 women and one man up in the front of the church. People were confessing their sins out loud but all at the same time. The first preacher of the service spoke while these people were confessing and then the Talatala also spoke while they were confessing. The Talatala told the congregation that if there is a conflict between two people, a person must first go to the other person and apologize before asking for forgiveness from God. Otherwise God will not help.

As the service ended, people shook hands with those sitting near them.

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Week 8 Field Notes

Researched Monday 10/25/99, Typed 10/26/99
Family background - interview with [name deleted] only

"My father came from Indian in 1914 as a laborer at the age of 15 years. And my mother came from India. Father knows everything. My mother didn't know anything, what village, what country, she wasn't educated. They came as five year laborers. They worked here at the sugar cane mill. At that time, I don't know what company it was, not CSR, not FSC. Maybe a New Zealand company. After five years, he was out of the agreement. I don't know about my mother. That time there was not marriage like now. They work together...?" [I believe he was saying that his parents had an arranged marriage.]

We had a native land lease...from a mataqali. The lease expired...a long time ago. My father had 700 acres land. We are 6 brothers planting cane. Three, four years we planted the cane and then they took their land back."
Land issues - interview with [name deleted] only

I asked why they took their land back. "This is the problem in Fiji. They give ten years, and go. After our ten years is finished, they took it back. There is a law in Fiji. And we can't get it back. If the land owner wants to give they can give. In Fiji it is a very difficult country. If the land owner wants to give the land, one board is the Native Land and they [may not] agree. It is very hard. Now a days, so much land is Fijian. The farmers are looking. ...[The Fijians] are taking it back. It is very hard to stay. But, I heard, what land is taken by the mataqali, the owners, the government will pay $28,000 or $30,000 to the farmers. The government pays them. They get it for free. They don't have to pay it back."

I asked him what he did when his lease ran out a long time ago. "I have 5 brothers. Four brothers died, only two are alive. I opened a small restaurant in 1962...on the other side [of Vaileka]. At that time, this was all bush. I paid 30 pounds per month rent. A long time, long time ago...this land was developed then by natives, by Fijians. I bought this land, it cost me 10,000, [He was referring to the building or section of the large building that his restaurant occupies presently]. He took a loan from the bank to buy this. I'm paying now, about 20 years ago, 1,000 per year rent for the land...to the owner, the mataqali. In 1975 I got an agreement for 75 years. Now it's only been 20 years, there are more or less 50 years left. After 50 years, I have to vacate this place. They'll take this place. Otherwise they want money. 'Give me $45,000 or $50,000.' Then they'll give the lease again. If no money, then they'll not give. I'll go somewhere else...The Fiji government owns no land. What the Fijians want to do, they can do. They block the road, everything, they can do. The government has no power at all...I don't know why. If the government wants to approve one thing, they have to go, one board is the Fijian Affairs Board, one board is Native Land, one board is mataqali. If they approve then...if they don't approve then they can't do anything about it. The government has no power at all...no power at all...In five years, when we vote, we have three votes, not one. In other countries, one man one vote. Here three votes. One we choose, one the government chooses, one other chooses, Three votes, not one vote. The prime minister hasn't got much power. He's got no land the prime minister. The different mataqalis have the land. He's got no land at all. It's very hard. It's getting very hard. When my father came, this was all bush. When the queen was here, that time was good for everyone...under British time.

At this point in the interview, Rup came in and took over the discussion from his father. His father remained in the room but didn't talk very much after this.

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Interview with [name withheld]

...We had independence in 1970. When the British came, they brought Indians to work here. That time was very good. Since independence, everything has changed. It was very good back then.

I asked him what has changed. "Problems with land disputes. Not maintaining property, everything like that. Because of land."

I asked him why they took the land away that his father owned. "My grandfather had land, about 2000 acres. That was in 1961...taken by the Fijians. Now [my father] is leasing [the land that the restaurant is on]." I asked him if Lal leased the land [on the farm] before the native land took it [in 1961]. "Some [Indians] have a lease, some have government freehold land, and crown land. There are three kinds of land here."

He had pointed out a cane farm where his uncle lives now when he brought me home last week. I asked about this land, if it is leased land. "That's freehold. That was what the British gave them. That was sold to them, British time. [They own that land.]" "They pay nothing, we pay $1000 a year here." "We have 75 years lease, $1000 per year...It is mataqali owned...Every five years or ten years, they increase the rent."

The other man pointed out that his father worked for 5 shillings per week, $0.50 per week. "In a small house they stayed."

I asked that the mataqali decided to stop the lease on the land they had. "There's two kinds of lease for mataqali. One is agriculture land. Every 30 years they renew. If they want, they can take it. But this one, they can't take it. They have to renew this one, the commission one. [The mataqali can't stop, but the renters have to keep paying money. This applies to the land that the restaurant is on now. It is not the same as agriculture land leasing.] [The agriculture one] when it expires it's ok 'Give me 20,000 or 30,000.' Then they'll renew the lease and then you have to pay the rent."

I asked him if he knew people that lease agricultural land. "Agriculture leases are expiring now, too many. This is a big problem in Fiji, the land dispute. The Indians freeholdings (?) are expiring. The mataqalis don't want to give it. Because of politics, there is too much politics in Fiji now. Rabuka lost the government. And now there is an Indian prime minister. That's a big high post, and they just make it politics."

I asked him if he thought that some of the mataqalis would renew the leases. "Almost 3/4 will be renewing. They might be renewing because [the leases] give them good money and rent. I asked him why he thought that some mataqalis would renew the leases while others would not. "Because, the mataqalis are supporting the Labor Party, Chaudhry's party, the new government, that's why they won. Because 70% of Fijians supported [the Labor Party]. Since Fijians supported the Labor Party, Rabuka didn't win." I asked why he thought that the Fijians switched to the Labor Party. "People's minds change about the government. Since the coup, that's 12 years, [prices] are going high. Since this government takeover...there was a draught in Fiji for sugar cane last year. And the government gave a grant to the farmers because they couldn't farm the cane; the cane was finished. They gave $2000, some $3000, the farmers, this was Rabuka's government. And [Chaudhry's] government came and made that free. Chaudhry's government scrapped that [payment back to the government.] And [Rabuka's government] wanted the farmers to pay that back within five years. [Rabuka gave this as a loan to be paid back and Chaudhry said that the farmers didn't have to pay this back.] Too many prices have gone up, and he put down everything. Like you buy tea, rice. Prices are going down and people are happy.

Both Indians and Fijians received this 'loan.' He claims that 50% percent of farmers are Fijian and 50% are Indian. This wasn't a promise that Chaudhry made before the election though, according to him. "People didn't know that he was going to win." I asked why he thinks that Chaudhry was elected. "[People think] change the government. Let's see what this new government is going to do." I said that it seems that most Fijians would vote for a Fijian prime minister though. "There are two kinds of voting here. You have to vote Indian, and for a Fijian too. Fijians also have to vote for Indians. Too many Fijians voted for the Labor Party. Like a communal seat, the Fijian communal seats. Fijians didn't vote Fijian, they voted for Labor." I asked why the Fijians changed parties. "They want to have some benefit. 'Let's see how this new government is going to run.' If a good thing doesn't come from there, someone else is going to take it."

I asked him if he was happy that an Indian was elected prime minister. "Anyone can come, any Indian or Fijian. Anybody can become a prime minister now. You can become prime minister...because of the constitution. We want any government to run our country smoothly, without a lot of corruption. Run the government properly. Anyone can do it, Fijian, Indian, European, Chinese." I asked if he thought that some Fijians are unhappy that there is an Indian prime minister. "There might be some yeah. If we are fighting [for an election] and I lose, then I will always be against you. Because of politics...But in Fiji, we have no problems with Fijians and Indians. No problem, you can see yourself. Nothing happens, no problem at all. Only the media makes problems. Otherwise we have nothing between Fijian and Indian, no problem at all."

I asked about everyday relations. Do Indians have Fijian friends and Fijian friends? "Yeah, just like brothers and sisters. No problem at all. The problem with crime, that is a different thing. Every country has criminals." I asked him if he thinks that anything needs to change with the relations between Indians and Fijians. "It's good now, set, no problem."

I asked him if he thinks that the mataqalis that are taking the land back will farm on that land. "It's up to them, if they want to they can. There are plenty farmers here. Only Suva is different. But Sigatoka to Rakiraki, all Indian and Fijian farmers there." Lal inserted, "Fiji depends on farmers." He continued, "Sugar cane is the main crop of Fiji." I said that some people have told me that if the Fijians take their land back the economy of Fiji will fall... "It will drop yeah. Well, Indians really work hard to get the crops. Fijians are not too much working hard. They don't work hard. They are good for kasava, dalo, they are very hard workers for that. They don't do the planting. Too much land is vacant." I asked him why he thinks this is, that they don't work hard. "I don't know why they do that. They put the land just vacant." I asked why it is that Indians work hard. "Because Indians want money (he gestured this by rubbing his fingers together), to live in a good house. In India before, a long time, there was a chief like Fiji. Now in India, no one is chief there. If you've got money, you are chief. Money is everything there. If you are the chief, you've got nothing. If you have money, you are the boss. Here Fijians they are always too much respecting the chief. Indians here in Fiji are different. We don't respect. You have money, not to listen to someone else. That's our way. You work hard, that's our money, if we want to go anywhere. Someone is not going to come and command me. We have our own. We have no chief to command us. That's [the Fijians] religion, to have a chief. We haven't got, Indians have nothing [like that]."

I asked him if he thinks that it is good that Fijians have chiefs. "They follow that religion since they were born. It is up to them." I asked him if he was glad to be Indian rather than Fijian, that he can just work hard and make money rather than follow that way. "These people, the Fijians, there are too many mataqalis. Sole. If anything, they have to give the money like that. Families give the money to that, is somebody died or something. Indians, if anyone died, we don't give a single cent to them. For my mataqali or my family, no. But they are a different religion. Give money, everything. Why should we give? But these Fijians have a different way." I asked if he ever gives any money to family members. "Oh, we give 1, 2, 3, 10 dollars. Not like we give everything, no." I asked him if he would send money back to his relatives in Fiji if he moved away. "If you've got the money then you can support. But there are hardly any Indians supporting each other. Just like Europeans."

The other man said, "There are three kinds of people in Fiji. One man comes [with] a passport, he comes for business. But we don't have that. My father came with no passport. I've got no passport." The main interviewee said, "he came on a British boat. They took one heap from India." The other said, "about 20 ships came. One ship took 400 or 500 people. The ships took three months to get from India here. If somebody died, my father said, [they threw the body overboard]."

The main interviewee interrupted, "We've got a chief here in Naviti Levu, the chief for our whole district. He's a very general man, this man. He does not act like a chief. He's a very good man." I asked why he doesn't act like a chief. "He, like some chiefs they demand something, but he, no. He looks after everyone the same, Indians and Fijians. He's the top chief. [His character is different from most chiefs.]...That's what I'm saying, there's no problem with any Indians and Fijians. This is the only problem that has now come, the land. There is too much politics. Politics are the problem. Otherwise, there is no problem, no problem at all." I asked what politics have done to create the problem. "See when in 1970, they handed over Fiji's independence, Ratu ___?___Mara took over. And he runs the government for 15/16 years, as the prime minister. No problem. Very good. After that, the Labor Party won. The prime minister was Dr. Bavandra (spelling?), a Fijian fellow. And the government said that there was too many Indians [in the government]. Then in 1987, there was a coup by Rabuka...because Fijians didn't like that the government was Indian, parliament...Because for 15 years the government was run by a Fijian. They might lose, and then a military coup took over. After two, three months, they he handed over again to the prime minister Ratu __Mara. Then there was an election, a new constitution. After that there was another new constitution in 1997. This was from the ex-governor general of New Zealand. About six, seven months ago there was a new election. Then the Labor Government won."

I asked him what he thought would happen now. "Everything is ok. The government is ok now. But some losers, they make a little problem." He does not think that there will be another coup. I asked when there will be another election. "It's up to how well this government will run. If it collapses, there will be another election. Here it's [every] five years [that there is an election]. If there isn't a big problem then there won't be a change of government." I asked who would be able to kick him out of office. "The public. If in over five years he is doing nothing, the people won't vote for his party. They'll vote for someone else."

I asked what some of the differences between Indians and Fijians are. "No differences, nothing. We're like brother and sisters. Nothing." I asked then how the cultures were different. "Their follow their own religion like we follow our own. Like some Indians are Christian, too many are Christian. And some are Muslim, and Hindu. Indians and Fijians can get married, it's no problem, plenty of them. No problem." I asked what some of the different ways of life that Indians and Fijians have are. "Indian girls, wives they don't go to nightclubs, they are very shy. But now, all are similar. Indian girls go to night clubs dancing." Rup was saying that Fijian women are not "shy" to go out to dance clubs like Indian women; but Indian women are becoming less shy as well. "Fijians are making Indian dishes now. Not like before, they were making only Fijian dishes. But now they can make a roti better than an Indian, curry everything. See we go everywhere, we eat boiled fish and kasava like that. But they come and they eat curry."

I asked how Indians act differently than Fijians. "In Fijian families, there are too many respected. If there is a big, high level chief they will bow and all. But the Indians, don't do respect, no. This is my father, he is an elder. My sisters and my family all come, they don't respect him. They just say, 'Hi, hi. And go.' Fijians are highly [respectful]." I asked which Rup thinks is better. "Fijian...Because that is the proper religion, the proper way."
The other guy continued after the main interviewee left the room

"Fijians they are very good people. No one ever fights. I have lived 81 [years] with Fijians, they are very fine, very good...All Indians are businessmen." I asked if Indians make more money than Fijians. He said yes. "Indians will work day and night. They are hard workers."

He went on to say that his father had to keep working all of the time when he came with the British. He told me that his father had shown him the scars across his back from getting whipped/hit (?) when he stopped working.
Fiji One News on Land Lease Issues

The Fiji One News broadcast last night showed a story about one mataqali that decided to renew its land lease to the Indian tenants. The spokesman for the mataqali kept referring to the tenants as "our Indian brothers." He said that the mataqali thought they would let the new lease run through the year 2007 and then the mataqali would take the land back. The mataqali also decided to renew the lease that a school is built upon.

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